tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-191814566134809079.post4884296073990972336..comments2023-05-21T03:53:49.288-05:00Comments on Icarus Always: Is it immoral to...?daemonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09153553633523797522noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-191814566134809079.post-12147790206980998382012-09-15T14:18:35.848-05:002012-09-15T14:18:35.848-05:00All good thoughts here. I am still kicking this on...All good thoughts here. I am still kicking this one around in my mind but I still do not believe it is fair or right for parents to "choose" what their child will believe and imprint them with whatever the family religion may be, for any reason.<br /><br />daemondaemonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09153553633523797522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-191814566134809079.post-14062074140214994072012-09-14T21:39:56.637-05:002012-09-14T21:39:56.637-05:00thoughtful commments above. this is a great quest...thoughtful commments above. this is a great question. my quick answer is: to teach your children your religion is lazy. to teach them your values is parenting. what is the difference? well, a value requires reasoning, whereas a religious value generally only requires obedience. in the worst case scenario, indoctrination in the parents religion can be classified as emotional abuse. seriously. in my case, the shame i learned from the catholic religion followed me well into my 30's. i tortured myself psychologically about being gay--for many years. and when i turned to my parents for help, they did not know what to do. thank you, catholic church! as i have grown into an adult, i have also become an atheist, and my value system now is based on reason. i aspire to be good to others because that is what is best not only for me, but for the others. the reasoning is also based in social science, and also the biology of humans. i always say that a morality that is self sourced is much easier to maintain than an out-sourced morality. just look at the religious leaders who get caught with their pants down these days. at least when i get caught with my pants down, i am not violating any of my morals! the wrap up: teach children values, and rather than putting the fear of god into them, resort to the time-tested "because i told you so!" as they get older, they will begin their own search, and the parents can then be a helpful guide. Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02737992571206851964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-191814566134809079.post-27237134593027411932012-09-14T21:03:37.561-05:002012-09-14T21:03:37.561-05:00I had another thought just before dinner & tha...I had another thought just before dinner & that thought was "Why do we presuppose that any shame or conflict by nature is derived from upbringing or social construct's (including religious)teaching?" I should ask if you were ashamed at some point and you thought it was because you were taught that it was shameful by what method did you overcome that shame and did you really overcome it? Is ignoring that shame the source of conflict that's undermining your every effort for real satisfaction in your life? I'm not suggesting that it is the case but merely asking the questions that came to my mind at dinner. Hard questions. But I think the belief system that you're referring to and any shame that occurred because of that belief system is pretty easy to overcome. But any hard wiring, as I call it, that is given by God because He predestined some for salvation...I know that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER..but I really don't want to get into that because for the reason of by grace we are saved and not of ourselves only SOME will be saved..just saying that any hard wiring by God is used for a guide (Heb 9) so that we can serve God with a clear conscience. Ahem, I realize these thoughts would probably not be very popular but I thought it was worth thinking about. Reject it if you have some insight. God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-191814566134809079.post-9073293891044064012012-09-14T18:34:48.463-05:002012-09-14T18:34:48.463-05:00By what standard, what criteria, or what authority...By what standard, what criteria, or what authority would you determine that raising a child up to believe in the Bible (or any other religious book) would be immoral? And if you raised a child by that standard, would not you then be raising them according to some other religion/philosophy whether it is written in a book or merely your own autonomously declared verbal canon? Bottom line is, you can raise a child in a philosophical vacuum. Either they will learn what you teach them ,what the church teaches them, the government schools teach them or what television/Hollywood teaches them.<br /><br />Anonymous BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-191814566134809079.post-11102644007871593032012-09-14T16:54:31.433-05:002012-09-14T16:54:31.433-05:00That's a good question but I think the answer ...That's a good question but I think the answer is found in the Scripture "Raise up a child in the way that they should go and when they are old they will not depart from it." But parents who do not study their Bibles and leave that entirely to their church of choice end up teaching them what their church teaches which may or may not be the truth. Raise up a child in the way he should go. Teach him to love others as he wants to be loved. Teach him to respect others as he wants to be respected. Teach him to revere the truths of the Bible without forcing him to live as a square peg. And when you wrote that you believe it is unethical and immoral..another thought came to my mind. Religious teaching is not always correct Biblical worldview teaching and sometimes the only context of organized religion is in their church meetings as they have zero authenticity anywhere else. So you have a good point. I think the best answer is for parents who want to teach their children religious ideas should first find out what they believe and find out if it's Biblically accurate and if it's Christ-centered and then teach it to their children. But I realize that's a tall order. Most people will never even read their Bible neither study it to find out what it was actually talking about. Paul wrote to the Romans about kinds of Relationships in Romans 1 but he didn't need to tell them that in Roman law it was ok for a Roman male to have sex with a Greek male. He didn't have to tell them it was not ok, according to Roman custom, not to penetrate another male Roman. But most religious people will never know that because they've never studied to find out exactly what Paul was trying to indicate. Personally I don't believe that he was talking about homosexual relationships as we understand it at all in that context. And most religious people will never find out what Paul was writing about in 1 Corinthians 11 when the women were told not to cut their hair. They'll say that one thing must have been for another time but the other is clearly sin. They'll say that word of knowledge or miracles or prophecy was for one time but can't explain to anyone why they think that it's not still for now. So if a male penetrates a male he's supposed to feel shame and if a woman cuts her hair it's ok and if someone is gifted in word of knowledge or prophecy they're supposed to keep it to themselves. It's a religious crock because people are more comfortable with small minded ways than they are in reaching out across the lines. So I guess I agree with you in some light because the social rearing ends up being their guidepost rather than what the Bible actually means. I started to ask you when the appropriate time would be and then I realized that the appropriate time is when they are a child but they should train up the child in the way that they should go without trying to shape them according to organized religious beliefs. If I don't want my child to drink beer or spirits then I shouldn't have it in my refrigerator. If I don't want them to look at indecent pictures of people in various situations then I shouldn't have a closet full of it. If I want them to help people in need I should help people in need. Hope you had a good day Daemon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com